Adam and Eve and Pinch Me

Can Eve have made a wise choice when there was not yet any agency? We had this lesson in RS today where they asked if Adam and Eve were great and noble spirits, how could they have made such a big mistake?  The answer presented is that it wasn’t a mistake.

I think this is one of those things.  Like the story of Joseph being sold by his brothers, or of Nephi having to slay Laban.  I say just because things turned out well doesn’t mean the situation wasn’t bad.  Did God want Jerusalem to have to be destroyed because of their rejection of the prophets?  Does he want us to be torn apart if we do not repent, as is mentioned in 3 Nephi?

I think part of God’s power is that nothing can thwart his purpose.  But there is opposition in all things.


  1. Funny cause we were just talking about this at my mom’s last night. I had read something about how the Savior could have chosen to not do the Atonement. And I’m like, “Really?” Because He says, “Not my will, but thine” which seems to imply it would have been against God’s will to not do the Atonement, and therefore a sin, which I guess would just put him in with the rest of us. This sounds flippant, but I’m not trying to be. We came to the idea that doing the Lord’s will was a culmination of a life of choices to do the Lord’s will. It would have gone against who He was, who He had chosen to be.

    1. In the same way that Pilate gave into the pressure, going against his better judgment to appease the crowd. His choice was based on a life of choices to go against his better judgment.

  2. Jeej writes: I think that Adam and Eve were innocent of evil, but that they still had agency- in order for agency to exist- three things have to be operative. First, there must be alternatives (they had the choice of whether to partake of the fruit or not). Second, there must be a knowledge, however small, of the consequences. Also, we, as individuals, must have the power, or freedom to choose. Now, they had not yet entered mortality until they partook of the fruit, but they still were in a state that they could act. I agree that the situation “was bad” after they partook of the fruit, in a number of ways. Adam and Eve had to exercise faith that they could ever regain the presence of God. As far as Eve’s choice, like the Savior’s choice to “go through with” the Atonement, (if it can be written in those words) I look at it as a culmination of a certain phase of Heavenly Father’s plan for his children. I don’t think that Eve was acting just for herself… anyway the long and short of it is that I don’t think it was a mistake.

  3. Agency doesn’t require the final element of freedom, knowledge. Agency only requires that you have the innate capacity to choose and that there be different things from which you can choose. You don’t have to know what the consequences of those different choices are in order to be the agent of the consequences of your actions. The fact of being the agent of the consequences of one’s own acts is why the principle is termed agency.

    Gnaulim (or whatever) intrinsically can make choices. But it was by the gift and power of God that Intelligences were given the chance of meaningful choices with actually distinct outcomes, through providing consequences for each choice. The characteristic of choosing is intrinsic to the core of every child of God, the consequences of choices are provided universally by God to every child. But the knowledge of which choices lead to which consequences must be provided from God and accepted by His children.

    It is the knowledge that turns mere agency into freedom. And that knowledge comes at a price…moral accountability for one’s choices, good or bad. Adam and Eve could not be morally accountable for their actions, good or evil, before gaining the capacity to understand the consequences of their choices. They could act, and those actions would have consequences for good or evil, but they had no understanding of either and thus no moral responsibility.

    The path of moral accountability, suffering from the effects of their own sins, is not the only way to attain knowledge of good and evil, but it is the path that they together chose.

  4. Now I make a distinction between Freedom and Liberty. Liberty is freedom exercised toward citizenship in God’s kingdom (modelled after Paul’s statements about being a citizen in Rome.) Is that what you are getting at, or is Freedom in your statment still the general property of being able to choose good or ill?

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