The law… THE LAW!

So I was wondering why, if children are in a state of not being able to covenant, why Benjamin in Mosiah 3  (or the angel of the Lord who talked to Benjamin) said we need to become like them.  It would seem I do not have it quite yet.

I decided to check Moroni 8, where Mormon explains that little children are alive in Christ.  Children are not accountable before the law, and it is a mockery to imagine they are.   To baptize an innocent is to trust in dead works.

I guess my impudent question, then, is whether it is possible for people not to sin.  Some may find this a distastefully theologic inquiry.  I  readily accept that in there has never been someone without sin besides Jesus Christ.  And I remember being 8, stealing food and telling quite a few lies and getting in really vicious fights with my siblings, resenting the sabbath and so forth.

I suppose I have to remember what Lehi says in 2 Nephi 2, that there is opposition in all things, that we are continually enticed on the one hand and the other, both to do bad but also to do good.

And I think this what is important about our rejection of Original Sin.  It is also somewhat more in line with the doctrines of Judaism, though they do not teach that men require redemption, at least not in the sense that pre-restoration Christians mean the term.  Original Sin teaches that man is by nature depraved, and even the book of Mormon speaks of us being evil continaully, carnal sensual and devilish, and so forth.

And it is not a matter of our bodies being wicked while our souls are good.  While our bodies are mortal, it is important to remember that we start out spiritually dead as well.  Our physicality is in the similitude of God, while the devil is a being of spirit only.  The idea that the physical is base and the spiritual is necessarily elevated is a heresy that entered the Catholic church from Greek Philosophy.

In any case, as Benjamin says, the natural man is an enemy to God because of the fall of Adam.  I do not think this just means our body, I think it also includes the spirit that is estranged from God.

It also says in both Mosiah 3 and Moroni 8 that those who never learn the law are redeemed through the mercy of Christ.  It is inevitable to ask, then, why we have the law if we would all be saved as though we were innocent without it.  More later.


  1. Jeej: The way I see your last paragraph, which may not be the way you see it, is that your question centers around the idea that “what you don’t know can’t hurt you”, or that if we are without the law we are saved because we are innocent- or we don’t know the law.

    Really, I think, the part in Moroni 8 that talks about those who are “without law” is referring to those who don’t have sufficient mental capacity, even after the normal age of accountability, to be capable of sinning. It is not, in my opinion, referring to those who haven’t heard the “gospel message” in this life- because we are all born with the light of Christ.

    So, saying it chronologically (if it can be put in those terms, because God is eternal of course), for us, not God’s perspective, since all is as one day with God-
    1. All mankind was lost- in a strict and limited sense. (I’m speaking before the Fall of Adam, I’m speaking before the War in Heaven even- and I’m giving it as my opinion.)
    I say this because, the Savior excepted, all mankind was just… lacking something, in need of shaping a large part of their character, in need of gaining knowledge… in need of a Savior- He was the only One who was strong enough to live perfectly.

    I may explain my other three points (I think I had three) later.

  2. Point #2. After all mankind was ‘lost’ (although God had it planned out and had provided a Savior as the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world) there was the chosen Savior- Jesus Christ, through whom redemption would come. Now I think the author of this blog has a valid point (assuming I am following it), when she speaks about ~’why do we have the law, if we would all be saved as though we were innocent without it’ (close paraphrase, instead of close quotes 🙂 However, that statement in itself (and maybe it’s just me) indicates that the idea that we can be saved without law seems, on the face of it, kind of silly. But I think it’s a fair question that she posed.
    In the Doctrine and Covenants, it states that a man can be saved no faster than he gets knowledge (see D&C 131?) And from the various parables, such as oil in lamps (the parable of the ten virgins) and other scriptures we know that there is no substitute for experience and obedience to gospel law. The knowledge of the law- true knowledge, not just rote ‘memorization’ in our brains, but written in our hearts, cannot be shared easily and quickly, and cannot be simply bought with money, just as the 5 wise women in the parable could not give their oil to the 5 foolish women.
    This is knowledge that we didn’t entirely have in the preexistence, not in the experience of a body, connected with our immortal soul, kind of way. So we had to come to earth. We had to make a decision. Either follow Jesus, or Lucifer. The choice was a choice for freedom, in following Jesus, or a vote against freedom, if we decided, instead, to follow Satan. Which brings me to the question- what was the War in Heaven fought over? More on that, if I can manage it, on another comment. By the way, I didn’t really wrap up point #2, but I’m getting a little tired:)
    Thanks for posting interesting questions.

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